Kinkajou: Tell us about your concept of National flavour in the enneagram gene model
Erasmus: It follow that if a person’s genes affect their behaviour, if there are a lot of these genes in a lot of people in a given area, it will give a particular region or country a particular feel or flavour. If a gene is common in particular nation, there will be a national behavioural flavour due to the occurrence of a specific gene.
Erasmus: Everyone has heard about:
American tourists and know what they are like, (very loud and talkative: enneagram social eights))
German tourists and what they are like, (precise yet bold: enneagram one/eight mix)
Russian tourists and what they are like (dominant yet suspicious: enneagram eight with a six flavour).
Japanese tourists and what they are like. (very precise: enneagram sexual and social ones).
There’s even a stereotype of Australian tourists and what they are like. (Bali Aussies are not regarded as the most salubrious of visitors).
My friend’s daughter recently went on a short school tour in Japan. She reported something quite remarkable. If someone were to lose a wallet, camera or even just an umbrella on the train system, it would almost always be handed in. People do hand in lost property in Australian cities or USA’ cities as well, but I understand that only about 30% of lost property is usually recovered in many western cities.
Kinkajou: So what is responsible for this type of behaviour?
Erasmus: Good Question. Is this culture or enneagram genetics, or both? There are indeed some significant differences in national behaviours which may be explained by the gene frequency of specific enneagram genes.
Until the receptor gene model is validated, my conclusions may only be guesswork. Still let’s have a go at describing some national flavour, hopefully not offending too many.
Japan: Sexual “ones”, stereotype of polite, careful, considerate, precise
USA: Social “eights”: stereotype of loud mouthed, noisy and brash, everyone knows an “American” tourist. Most Americans I have met are nice people and not like that at all, but it is the stereotypical American we are talking about. Possibly a not surprising gene type if you consider that the original colonists were Puritans escaping religious discrimination. To derive the drive to emigrate and maintain group cohesion would well be a “social eight”: trait.
Italy: a nation of “fours”. Traffic and travel is organized chaos. People beep or honk their horns, abandon their cars then dash back, going on their way.
National Character aplenty
UK: “sevens” and “eights”: feet itchy enough to get there and bloody minded enough to keep them going once they are there. The stereotype is the British Bulldog, hanging on.
Scotland: “sixes”: Scotsman careful quiet and thoughtful, yet not to be trifled with.
All Engineers are Scots and all Scots are engineers
Australian Aborigines: “self- pres” “nines”
Indonesians: “self- pres” “ones
Thais: social “ones” and “social” “nines”
Pacific Islanders: “social” “nines”
Central European Ethnics: “eight”: dangerous to cross and not to be reasoned with
Ukrainians: maybe “threes” and “fours”, I’ll base my case on a quote from a movie: the Italian job. Don’t mess with Mother Nature, taxes and mother freakin' Ukrainians.
China: social “threes”: Hardworking and industrious. I suppose poverty helps but there is a definite stereotype of the hardworking Chinese e.g. in the building of the first national transcontinental railway in the mainland USA.
Australia: “sevens” Fun loving party animals with a flair for not worrying about the effect of their behaviours on others. Perhaps with a bit of brashness or enneagram one character thrown in.
Goo: It is not surprising to think that stereotypes are based on the genetics of specific individuals in a segment of the population.
Kinkajou: Interesting. Maybe it’s true. Maybe not. But there are some national stereotypes out there. Perhaps earned for a nation by a very visible minority and not at all representative of the real population. It is likely that these stereotypes are based on genetic traits inherent in the most noticeable or most visible of the people involved.
Erasmus: I would love to see some work or research long term looking at the brain receptor distributions in different nations. It follows that if the gene frequency of specific enneagram types gives a nation a flavour, immigration can substantially alter the gene types and feel of a nation.
For example, if immigrants are largely nines, the prevalence of the advanced. gene enneagram types will decrease. I.e. there will be
More: ones, fours, fives, nines
Less: two, threes, sevens, eights
An interesting corollary of changing gene frequency in say a country or region, is the question of whether this relates to economic performance. If the people are different, they will do different things in different ways at different speeds. This will result in a significant change in economic performance due to a change in preferred patterns for working, change in productivity and changes in the ability to support specific industries.
For example: enneagram ‘Nines” prefer process oriented work cf. decision oriented work. Traditional nine employments include:
Officer : military outpost
These are jobs where the work comes steadily and there are few decision making events interfering with progress. Jobs where there are few interruptions are preferred. Nines like jobs where they can work steadily and do one thing at a time.
Other enneagram types such as “sevens” prefer more varied work mix and can cope with multiple demands on their time in a work environment.
Employing a “nine” as a receptionist where multiple people and phone calls need to be dealt with simultaneously, is a job description from hell for a "nine”.
It’s probably even worse if you employ a self-pres as a receptionist. They really don’t have a people oriented nature. While they could do the job, they would not do the job as easily or as intuitively as a “social.”
The busy receptionist job description would probably suit a “social seven: right down to the ground.
I think different people, different skills, and different jobs.
Non Australian Man: building his own national character.
Kinkajou: So Why Do Nations Fail?
Erasmus: Perhaps a different perspective on why nations through history have failed, is that have not had the right people mix to succeed. A successful nation has people able to do the task that need to be done. As success increases, immigration changes the gene mix of the country and the country or nation becomes more of a misfit to work the way it used to work.
I am not saying that immigration is bad per se, just that it delivers or could deliver changes. If not anticipated and planned for, immigration may well deliver performance surprises that impact on a nation’s character and economic performance.
Relaxed Fellow: building national character.
On a personal level, I have a strong affinity for personalities with fast histamine genes, i.e. nines. Our civilization would not be the same civilization without them. But I feel very strongly-nines could either not build a civilization, or would build a civilization that would be very different to what we see today. A civilization that would not burst into being in a short space of time such as occurred in Mesopotamia (Sumeria). It would be a civilization that would creep out of history over thousands of years. It would be a civilization with a complex social hierarchical binding, linking all the people together into a web of shared knowledge, shared responsibility and shared understanding. A very different civilization animal indeed, to the one we know so well today.
Casual relaxed Man: taking it easy building national character.
Nines would not choose to build the civilization we know today. But they very definitely would choose to live in it. They can understand its advantages and disadvantages and are quite happy to fit into their niche within it.
This describes the Maori situation discussed under self pres and in fact probably describes native peoples in many parts of the world.
Goo: Again, proposing that immigration by altering the gene mix of a population , changes the success of a nation in many different activities.
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National Character Aplenty: but things have changed since then.
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Erasmus: In the nation’s webpage on this site, I also make the point that with increased immigration of enneagram nines in to a nation, the nation loses its drive, its energy and begins to stagnate. This is not to say that nines are bad. It is simply to say that too many of any enneagram subtype does change the culture of action and doing of a nation. In short, there is perhaps a more optimum degree of blending of the enneagram genes in any population, if that population as a nation aims to achieve specific goals.
It is said in many discussions, that enneagram nines perform very well in routine repetitive jobs where there is very little ability to decide what when to do and how to do it. Nines become imprisoned by web of routine.
Threes also tend to migrate to busy jobs, and tend to lose themselves in the volume of work with which they engage. Threes become imprisoned by a web of activity. Threes do tend to complete the tasks which they start.
Sevens start many things and finish few. Sevens become imprisoned by web of unfinished tasks and of things that they plan to do.
Sixes think about things and try to understand how and why things happen. Sixes often become imprisoned a web of paranoia in understanding the cause-and-effect aspects of how and why things happen around them.
National Culture : typical men
Erasmus: I do think the question about what sort of people there should be in the nation, does need to be asked. How much of the stagnation or loss of drive in Western Society is actually driven by increased prevalence of specific genes within the population. Is “one-ing” a nation a good thing? Is “nine-ing” in a nation a good thing? Is seven-ing a nation a good thing? Is six-ing a nation a good thing?
What proportions of each of these genes gives a nation the most drive the most energy the most ability to achieve many tasks that make a civilization successful?
Kinkajou: An interesting question. I think there are no bad enneagram types. Each enneagram type can be a disease or problem unto itself. There are however enneagram types which work better in situations and solve problems differently.
Erasmus: Yes. For example, in an organisation or company, a three manager can push an organisation, develop efficiency, and work towards a goal.
A seven manager would consider many different options to find a new path to the future.
A nine manager would help mesh the people together into a team that can work towards the future by combining their different strengths and weaknesses.
A six manager could understand the hidden agenda and navigate his organization’s path around it.
Dr. Xxxxx: The enneagram genetics makes the personality which defines the people who make the nation. Hence people are not all just people. The genetics of people matters. It can define the direction and success of a nation. And nations can be “frozen” by the changes that their people make: witness the failure of the river civilization of the Indus valley in ancient history and the success of the people of the first civilisation - Sumeria. But never forget that it is disease that has guided human civilisation more than any other factor.
Goo: I see Pomp and Pestilence.
Earth from Space: once it was a "pink" planet, due to excess sulfur from volcanic activity.
Dr. Xxxxx: The Pomp probably in the genetics and diseases like Paill Spectrum being the true hidden Pestilence affecting behaviour.
Personality determines the path of nations.
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